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Author Topic: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4  (Read 2264 times)

drummingkitten

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Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« on: August 11, 2011, 04:38:07 PM »

Not too sure if similar posts have been make before, I find the smaller triggers are less sensitive than the bigger triggers on my Z4. Basically it requires me more effort to hit the smaller trigger to produce a sound than the bigger ones. It can be reflected quite clearly when I monitor with the force display. However what I notice from other Zendrummer's YouTube video, it seems pretty easy or requires little effort to play the smaller triggers.

Is it user problem or my smaller triggers are less sensitive? How can I Improve it?  ??? ???
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Inspector 109

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 04:45:50 PM »

recalibrate the smaller triggers.
In calibration mode- strike the triggers you wish to raise the response of with a lighter hit.
The Z4 will set the 127 velocity at whatever hardest hit it sees and scale every other strike down from that baseline.
Hope this helps.
Contact me directly for personalized tech support.
Thanks,
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DrumWagon

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 05:33:42 PM »

At the risk of over-plugging ZenEdit, I should point out that ZenEdit allows you to set the response curve for each individual trigger, rather than for the whole setup.   One of my triggers is way hotter than the rest and I use this feature to tame it.  You could use this to your advantage too, either by making the smaller ones more sensitive, or by making the larger ones less so.

I'm also having great fun playing around with reducing the upper volume level for some select triggers that I 'comp with, though that feature hasn't been released just yet (!)

-darin
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Pocket Master

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 06:15:54 PM »

I have adjusted my sensitivity in the superior drummer software to how I play with each hand.  I have Zenedit and it works great for individual triggers, it is a good investment for the money, and right now it only works with the Z4.  Glad to see you made it on the forum drummingkitten.

Rob
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DrumWagon

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 01:01:22 AM »

Thanks Rob, that's a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one  ;D
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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 05:25:21 AM »

Send checks payable to The Pocket Master......haha.  You are doing great work with our instrument and I appreciate you.  Anytime I can plug Zenedit to someone that can really use it, I will.

Rob
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drummingkitten

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 06:16:44 AM »

Hi David,

I tried to recaliberate my smaller triggers but it doesn't seems to work. I could actually use fingernails to play the bigger triggers but not the smaller one. I hope i can caliberate the smaller triggers to that extend. I've just emailed you a detailed report on my attempts.


Hi DrumWagon,

Does ZenEdit allows me to caliberate the smaller trigger to the extend that i can play using fingernails? hee... I am currently using an external sound machine like Alesis, do i have to to switch to full music software solution in order to use ZenEdit?


Hi Rob~
Yeah i finally made it to the forum! :) Thanks for Geo and your help. Hmmmm it seems like zenedit and superior drummer 2 can help me to adjust the sensitivity. But I wonder if the hardware is unable to detect the softer touch, how can the software programs helps?

Cheers~

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 07:22:37 AM »

The software solution has many more layers of soft to loud hits than a module does . I learned most of what I know on a module because the learning curve was not as steep and now I am marching forward with the software and hope to get up and running with it soon so I can play out live with it and feel comfortable. There are plus and minus with whatever way you chose to go It is up to you. Ask questions!  There are many here on the forum that have gone thru this already and would be happy to help you if they can.Thumper
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Thumper

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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 10:48:21 AM »

DK,

Zenedit will help you with the sensitivity of each trigger.  You can adjust settings per trigger and you can make changes based on how you play.  If you notice that one trigger is not responding like another, you can change the non responsive trigger with Zenedit and make it "hotter" it will trigger with a lighter touch.  As for software versus drum modules, the module has limited variations for each drum, there may only be 4 soft, 4 medium, and 4 hard hits for each drum, with software, you can load in 20 soft, medium and hard hits if the software is that extensive.  The new Zendrum Drive has tons of hits per velocity.  David said he recorded from the softest hit to breaking the stick on each drum.  With that you will have the maximum amount of response to your trigger hits.  I am using SD2 and it has the same concept, but I think the Zendrum Drive has more samples to choose from in regards to velocity.  BFD2 is the same way, I don't have BFD2 (yet) but I know it takes a lot of computer memory so I can imagine there are many velocity samples to choose from.

Rob
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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2011, 12:09:15 PM »

Does ZenEdit allows me to caliberate the smaller trigger to the extend that i can play using fingernails?
You can actually try this out for yourself with just your Zendrum.  Try lowering your noise floor (FL) to say 4, or maybe even lower and then try playing the smaller triggers.  Assuming you were using the default setting, you should find them to be more sensitive.  Also try changing the response curve (rC) to 3 or 6.  You may find that this feels even better.

The trouble though is that those changes are happening to ALL the triggers so now your large ones will probably be too hot.  What ZenEdit can do for you is let you edit those settings for the large and small ones independently.  It gives  you much more fine-grained control every aspect of your Zendrum.

I am currently using an external sound machine like Alesis, do i have to to switch to full music software solution in order to use ZenEdit?
No, the sound source you use does not matter.  Most software based solutions will sound and feel better at lower velocities simply because they are playing samples that were recorded at lower levels and are not being scaled.  This is irrelevant to the topic of trigger sensitivity though.

And btw, that statement about software solutions feeling better is totally subjective.  Everyone is different, as is every case.  I myself will still use my Alesis unit when I'm doing dance or Electronica as to me it just feels better.  I wouldn't be caught dead playing jazz with anything but BFD2 though.  These are just my own opinions of course.
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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2011, 12:21:52 PM »

I am using SD2 and it has the same concept, but I think the Zendrum Drive has more samples to choose from in regards to velocity.  BFD2 is the same way, I don't have BFD2 (yet) but I know it takes a lot of computer memory so I can imagine there are many velocity samples to choose from.

The TRS Core (David's Battery 3 add-on files that ship with the ZDD) that I was able to play with clocked in at only 1.8GB, uncompressed.  I'm not that familiar with SD2, but I gotta imagine that it has far more velocity layers than TRS.    The base install for BFD2 is just under 60GB.  With a fair amount of the (absolutely brilliant) add-on packs and I've nearly maxed out a 200GB drive.

I'm not knocking David's library, i think it sounds awesome.  I do think it's like comparing apples and oranges though.
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Re: Sensitivity of smaller triggers in Z4
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2011, 01:18:24 PM »

Zendrumdrive TRS core library has 30 velocity soft to loud hits struck with left/right hand alternating strokes.
This sampling technique coupled with the round-robin feature between two alternating Battery cells makes the machine-gun effect of the drum machines a thing of the past. The other reason for TRS small memory footprint is the 16 bit recording in MONO and played back in stereo or MONO mixes with 8 individual drum outputs as well. SD2 and BFD2 play simultaneous multi-mic'd versions of a single drum so you can manipulate them as you please with multiple plug ins and mic positioning snapshots stored as kits.  That's the big gig memory difference. Our intention with Zendrumdrive project was to present "finished" sounds and eliminate the need for engineering and computer expertise. Drum module simple. Pick note numbers for choosing your drums, play.
Darin said it perfectly- Apples and Oranges.
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