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Author Topic: Roland TD-10 module  (Read 3592 times)

randtor

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Roland TD-10 module
« on: July 13, 2010, 07:34:33 PM »

DrumWagon,

 This looks really great! During the video tutorial I noticed you had different modules in there but mine wasn't. Can you set it up for the Roland TD-10 as well?
If I am looking at this right, it can be used to interface the Z4 with any module, not just a software/PC combo? I have been messing around trying to arrange certain percussion sounds 4 in a row, in order to use the 4 note velocity switch feature... it looks like I won't have to do that now, with this program. Wahoo! 

Thanks,

Rand
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DrumWagon

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 11:43:44 PM »

You're right!  How'd I miss that?

It's now in version 1.0.9.  If you've installed the app, you can go to "Help > Check For Updates" to obtain it.

I'll also be updating the website so that it lists all the supported modules.
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Got it tonight
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2010, 10:16:35 PM »

OK, Good stuff. The crossfade ability alone is worth the price for all of you Roland TD-20 folks. I was looking for the nice figured cherry color of my Zendrum to show my wife and the color schemes are limited. I also have the Purple heart inlay, no way to get that going. What's up with that? It must be coming out in the next version. :) It is really good Darin. Keep working on it. I think it will continue to evolve and really be great but it really is a good start.

Mark
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 09:52:25 PM »

Drumwagon,

Simple Question #1: Do you recommend a specific MIDI to USB cable, or module?

Complex question #1:
On the TD-10 module, there are 50 available different drum kits, each one can be customized to whatever sounds I want for each piece, ie: snare, bass, etc.
I have 4 different "percussion group" setups I can specify with each and every Kit. So, with 50 kits, I can specify one of four percussion groups and assign that group to that kit. It can  be changed on the fly, ie: I can specify a change to percussion group #x from #x before I play a song, then change it back after if I want (in the TD-10).
Once all 4 of the percussion groups is set up in the TD-10, the instrumentation assigned to the pads remains the same for each of the 50 KITS within the CHANNEL (1-16) I am using. There are 16 ZX MIDI channels, which means I have the ability to set up my pads differently for each of these channels, then assign sounds based on 50 kits... for each channel. Each kit can then be assigned 1 of 4 percussion groups...... clear as mud?!?! :-)

My question, using your Zenedit software, is: How do I use the "percussion group" feature within your software? I see where I can set up each pad for whatever sound I want, based on the channel I am on (1-16). Once the pad is assigned a sound/#, for that channel, does that remain the same for all 50 kits on that channel? If so, how do I assign for example, percussion group #1 to kits # 1-10, and perc group #2 to kits # 15-20, etc., all within the same channel?

This may make no sense at all, and if thats the case, I apologize. I have not yet downloaded the software, as I am confused as to how I would be able to use all the features on the TD-10 effectively, like in this example.

 In reading my question above, its pretty confusing. I think it would make more sense if we could go over this vocally??
If you would like to chat about this so I can clarify my question, I'd be happy to do that. Then maybe you could make sense of it, and clarify your answers/solutions to all that use the TD-10. If you like, you can PM me and I'll give you my personal contact info.
*Phew!*
Thanks,
Rand
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 10:01:02 PM by randtor »
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DrumWagon

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 10:18:25 PM »

I can create mappings for the extra percussion groups, however I don't think you'd find that helpful as you can currently only have one mapping per user setup.  You can of course mix and match channel numbers within the same setup, however they all use the same mapping file.

There is an item on the road map for allowing the mapping to be changeable at the trigger level, but that won't be realized for a few releases from now.

My recommendation for the meantime would be to set the mapping for the user setup to "Roland TD-10".  Then I would select all the triggers that are to use the perc channel and then turn off the module naming for them so that you only see the midi number (or note name if you wish).  You can then just set these using the lookup tables from your TD-10 manual.

Holler if any of this isn't clear.
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 03:51:50 PM »

Cool!
You "got" my question!
It was very complicated, yet your answer was pretty simple and direct. Gotta love it, for us dumb dumbs out there!
OK, my next step then is to buy the MIDI to USB cable so I can purchase and download the program! Any recommendations on a specific cable?
Thanks,
Rand
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DrumWagon

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 05:00:48 PM »

Well, it helps that I use Roland modules too -- probably would have been all greek otherwise  ;)
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 08:42:04 PM »

Hey Rob,

So I purchased a MIDI cable... Alesis... it has 2 MIDI ends and 1 USB. My ZX is wireless.

Do I hook up one MIDI to the TD-10 "out/thru" and 1 MIDI to the zendrum "MIDI in"?
The TD-10 also has a "MIDI in".
What goes where?

The TD-10 also has a built in MIDI bulk dump, and a copy tool. Do any of these get used with the ZenEdit program, or do I still need to download and use a Sysex editor?

Sorry 'bout the dumb questions, but I am one of the many MIDI "challenged" old school drummers (electronics?? Well, I can plug in my fan!)
Thanks. I am ready to buy and download but I'd kinda lke to know how to use it!
Rand
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DrumWagon

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 11:04:11 AM »

In my experience, dumps are not successful through the wireless.  I always switch over to a wired connection when performing these operations.

You technically should be able to hook and do your dumps "thru" your TD-10, however to simplify things I would just connect your Zendrum directly to your computer.

None of the MIDI bulk features of your TD-10 are used.  Those are all specific to that unit.

And yes, you do need a sysex dump utility for the time being.  Suitable ones are listed here:
http://nebiru.com/zenedit/index.cfm?event=helpIndex
You'll also find complete instructions on getting data to and from ZenEdit there.

***

In a future version you may no longer need a third party sysex tool.  The near-term roadmap for ZenEdit is as follows (in most probable order):

Release #TBA:  Improved "note picker" and inclusion of piano roll.

Release #TBA:  Rename "modules" to "mappings".  Allow different "mappings" for each MIDI channel.

Release #TBA:  Expose MIDI statistics and provide alternate charting views.

Release #TBA:  Add two-way communication abilities to the MIDI proxy server.

Release #TBA:  Add sysex capabilities to the MIDI proxy server.


Once those last two are realized, the use of a third-party sysex editor will no longer be required.  You will be able to send/receive dumps directly from ZenEdit.   The timing of these releases is hard to predict, but I would suspect this will be available by the end of the year.

cheers
-darin
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 09:05:40 PM »

Hey Rob,

Downloaded the trial and I have been playing with it all night... it took me a while to figure out how to get the ZX to talk to the PC using the MIDI-OX program. I had no idea the "midi out"/merge box plug-in on the ZX was where I needed to attach the MIDI-USB cable. I  was using the MIDI IN plug on the ZX. D'uh! I am really challenged, lol! But I still have the following problem:

I have the MIDI-OX running and recognizing the ZX. I have the MIDI Proxy server up and running as well. The Zenedit program recognizes my set up, and tells me the MIDI is active (bottom right corner), yet I cannot get any pads to light up with the note chaser "on". Any idea why??

As I understand the program, I can use 16 different setups, each being unique to that "set up" channel. Once I set up the pads, I still need to assign my sounds to each of the 50 different drum kits available per channel. This is not with the ZenEdit program, right?

Thanks. I just purchased the program.... I wanted to play with it a bit first, so I originally used the trial. After purchasing, I still have the same issue.
Kudo's to you for doing this!
Rand
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 10:16:56 PM by randtor »
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2010, 07:22:07 PM »

Rob,

I turned on the program tonight, and I do have note chaser feature working. The MIDI notes are all showing up in the bottom right hand corner as well. Looks good for take off!!

So, at this point, the only question on the board (from my previous post) is:
"As I understand the program, I can use 16 different setups, each being unique to that "set up" channel. Once I set up the pads, I still need to assign my sounds to each of the 50 different drum kits available per channel. This is not with the ZenEdit program, right?"

Thanks,
Rand
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DrumWagon

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2010, 07:58:47 PM »

Rob,
Ummm, it's Darin actually.

I turned on the program tonight, and I do have note chaser feature working. The MIDI notes are all showing up in the bottom right hand corner as well. Looks good for take off!!
More than likely MIDI-OX had exclusive use of the Midi port.  It's been a while since I played with it but iirc there is a way to have it passively monitor a port and not eat all the messages.
Also, the chase feature need not be enabled for the triggers to light up, they will do that regardless.  The chase feature just also selects the tapped trigger(s).

So, at this point, the only question on the board (from my previous post) is:
"As I understand the program, I can use 16 different setups, each being unique to that "set up" channel. Once I set up the pads, I still need to assign my sounds to each of the 50 different drum kits available per channel. This is not with the ZenEdit program, right?"
All ZenEdit does is edit the 16 User Setups that are on your Zen, it does not introduce any other hierarchy (i.e., you seem to be asking if there are 16 setups per setup).
This is independent our your sound source, ZenEdit does not assign the sounds to your 50 Roland kits.  If you're looking for software that does that, you might want to look into http://www.vdrumlib.com/

When you use the TD-10 module mapping in ZenEdit, you assign the different trigger inputs of your TD-10 to pads on your Zendrum.  For instance, you'll find entries for Kick, Snare, Tom1, etc.  It's these entries you assign to Zendrum pads, not the individual sounds from your Roland unit.  Then as you flip through the 50 kits on your TD-10, the layout will be the same for each on your Zen.

If any of this is unclear, let me know.

-darin
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 08:59:22 PM »

Sheesh!  :-[
Sorry Darin, I don't know how I started with 'Rob'. I know your name, I've veiwed your website often enough!

OK on the MIDI-OX, I sure don't understand all about MIDI yet, but I am slowly picking it up. I do have all functions working now, I just need to figure out how to transfer the changes I make on ZenEdit to the Zendrum. I will watch the videos again...and again... and again! It's all there, I just gotta remember it all until it becomes second nature.

Gotcha on the 16 setups being the same, and now assigning different sounds to the pads for each kit. That's what I thought, I just wanted to confirm.

"Crystal" clear  ;D !

I will be working with this over the weekend, I really am looking forward to assigning the crossfades!

Thanks again, great program!
Rand
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DrumWagon

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 11:48:44 AM »

... I just need to figure out how to transfer the changes I make on ZenEdit to the Zendrum. I will watch the videos again...and again... and again! It's all there, I just gotta remember it all until it becomes second nature.

In a nutshell, you export the sysex from ZenEdit to disk, then import that to your Zendrum using MIDI-OX, same as you would when restoring a backup.
A more verbose version is here:
http://nebiru.com/zenedit/index.cfm?event=helpIndex

-darin
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randtor

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Re: Roland TD-10 module
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 10:26:09 PM »

Darin,

Your 'nutshell' contained exactly what I was missing when I read the other directions. Since I never backed up my settings on the Roland module, I wasn't very familiar with Sysex. Now I understand, so it should be pretty easy. I'll work on it this weekend and let you know how it went. I have a pretty important gig coming up Friday night (if the hurricane doesn't get us!), so I don't want to mess around too much until after that. Murphy's Law, dontcha know!

Thanks for pointing me to the vdrumlib website, I checked it out but will look closer this weekend. It looks like that will fit the bill and make it easier to make changes on the Zendrum kits. Much appreciated!
Rand
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