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Author Topic: What is the trigger mechanism  (Read 4237 times)

weeksville

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What is the trigger mechanism
« on: December 06, 2006, 10:46:28 AM »

I have looked for a good feeling trigger for midi drum sounds for a long while. I always look at the Zendrum but they are a bit pricey for something I can't test out.  I have had and used Pintech, V drums, a DD-55,  and TrapKAT.  Every time I end up back behind my Pearl drum set because the trigerring mechanisms for all of the listed units really fail when it comes to any sort of nuance playing.  I currently use a Roland MIDI guitar trigger on a Stratocster for midi triggering and  I actually get better results playing a drum loop with my guitar controller than I ever have with with a pad based interface. 
My question is are the triggers on the Zendrum just your basic pressure sensitive piezos behind a rubber pad stuck to a piece of wood? (Beautiful ergonomic wood albeit.)
Thanks
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eDrummer53

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2006, 11:55:58 AM »

Well, I'll jump in here with my 2 cents.  If you want an exact replacement for your acoustic drums, there aren't any.  If you are looking for a highly portable midi controller with what I would consider to have one of the best and most sensitive triggers, then that would be the Zendrum.  Another comment I would make is that your sound source becomes critical when you want sensitivity and dynamics for percussion/drums.  If your sound source can't respond, then it won't matter how dynamic you are with the midi controller.

Using my Zen and a Fantom X Rack mount unit has given me the best overall dynamics I have ever had with electronic drums (been using electronics since the mid-80's).  There are many options on this board for excellent sound sources such as BFD and a Muse Receptor (if you have the money to spend).

However, playing a Zen is not at all like playing a drumset or any of the drumpad/trigger setups sucha s the Vdrum and/or DrumKat where you use sticks.  On the other hand, you get a LOT more control over velocity using your fingers on the hard plastic Zen midi triggers than you can using a pair of sticks.


...Just my thoughts

Thanks,

...Rod
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weeksville

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2006, 12:12:53 PM »

Yeah, I think I am asking more from MIDI than it can deliver.  I just wish I could test it out.  I am pretty good with the finger drumming technique as it applies to using keyboards to trigger sound modules.  But if the interface is just the piezo set up, I am afraid I will be as disappointed as I have been with all of the other pad based units.  Not a fault of the Zendrum, but mostly a result of my high expectations.  Do you know if this indeed the set up?
Thanks
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Pyrate

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2006, 12:56:44 PM »

Ahoy thar Matey:

    Whereabout s are you.  There might be a Zendrummer in your neighborhood.  Just contact the fine folks at Zendrum corporate and they can provide you with someone in your area.  Most of us are more than willing to show our rigs to those that have not seen one up close and personal.

     If you happen to be in the Orlando Florida area, check out the group Mo'Rockin at Epcot.  The Zendrummers there are more than willing to talk to folks about their instruments. 

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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weeksville

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2006, 01:01:46 PM »

I really appreciate all the kudos for the Zendrum. It sound like a great instrument. But does someone actually know what the triggers are made of?  That is my only real question. 
Thanks
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Pyrate

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2006, 01:14:17 PM »

They are made of snips and snails and puppy dog tails.....or are they made of sugar and spice and everything nice....actually I think they are made up of Heisenberg compensators and barodial transients.

Pyrate
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weeksville

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2006, 01:29:57 PM »

"In the fictional Star Trek universe, the Heisenberg compensators are part of the transporter system." Thanks to Wikipedia for defining this for me.  Not being a "Trekie" I think is the term the humor was lost on me.  But if the triggers are indeed made of fictional material they probably won't do for me as I am firmly grounded in reality.  However, if anyone else has the answer to my question I would appreciate it.
Thanks
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Geosphere

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 06:27:24 AM »

However, if anyone else has the answer to my question I would appreciate it.
Thanks

The answer is proprietary.  No one here is going to know the exact answer except David Haney, who assembles the electronics of the rig.
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Zenfem#9

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 09:53:05 AM »

I can tell you that the trigger body is not rubber like some drum pads, but is a hard plastic, and very touch sensitive.  They don't feel like your standard drum trigger at all.  You're tapping a piece of plastic, but it feels good, and depending on what your triggering, you have a lot of subtle control.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 10:05:57 AM by Zenfem#9 »
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Pyrate

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2006, 12:02:35 PM »

Avast Thar!  I be grounded in reality, but I also dare to dream things that have never been dreamt of.  To quote JFK, who was quoting someone else at the time, "Some people see things as they are and ask why.  I see things that never were and ask wny not!"  I shoot for the Moon, because even if I miss, I land among the stars!  But I have never lost my sense of reality.  After all Reality is sometimes stranger than fiction.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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Zenfem#9

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2006, 12:52:15 PM »

One more thing..the pads don't actually depress when you touch them, they are static.  Unlike a keyboard, the pads don't move in any way when you play them.
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Michael Render

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2006, 03:03:38 PM »

My guess is that the triggers are FSR rather than piezo. But I am not going to take my Zendrum apart to find out! ;D
The Zendrum is one of the most nuanced triggers I have ever used. But even the ost nuanced MID controller only gives you 127 levels.
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john emrich

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2006, 03:19:01 PM »

If you fancy yourself as a decent "finger drummer", you will not find a better, more dynamic controller than the Zendrum.  If you have problems getting dynamics out of this instrument, then you will need to look into your own technique.  The Zendrum is more about what you bring to the instrument.  It will reproduce exactly what you put into it.  I am involved with a lot of companies that develop electronic instruments and this instrument is way ahead of everyone.  The Zendrum rocks!

By the way, Guitar to MIDI has a lot more latency than any professional trigger to MIDI interface made for drums. This has to do with the vibration of the strings, and as the string gets bigger (ie. lower pitch), the slower it responds.  You will not have this problem with the Zendrum.  You will actually have much more in terms of dynamics and accuracy.

The actual trigger mechanism is only a part of the triggering system.  Focusing on one element is not the way to look at any instrument.  Do you think that any other company would tell you all of the details involved in the construction of electronic musical instruments?  David has built a wonderful tool which has stood the test of time and everyone in the tribe supports him. 

Hope this helps,
John


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John Emrich
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funky_d

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2006, 07:32:50 PM »

And now for my 2 cents...

I've been using various synth and electronic percussion for over 23 years now in one form or another, and I understand the meat behind your question (and I was never satisified with trigger nuances on acoustic drums either.) All I can say is this, the Zendrum has the most fantastic sensitivity and dynamics I have ever come across. PERIOD. I've had everything from the SynDrum Twin (late 70's) through the Yamaha DTXtreme IIS (still available.) Tons of electronic percussion equipment from over 30 years, from all over the world, and just about every concievable company.

Hope that helps,
FunKyD

PS- The Zendrum has much better feel and dynamics than the Roland HPD-15 HandSonic, I sold mine soon after my Zen arrived.
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weeksville

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Re: What is the trigger mechanism
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2006, 07:41:59 PM »

Thank ya'll very much for all of the great input.  May I ask one more question?  I am looking to buy a lightly used Zendrum and the seller is being blunt honest with me about dropping it one time.  He said two of the triggers came out.  He said he just popped them back in to their recessed spots and the drum continues to work flawlessly.   Does this sound legit?
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