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Author Topic: Volume Control Pedal  (Read 3449 times)

marktec1

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Volume Control Pedal
« on: March 11, 2010, 02:09:11 PM »

hi all

just wondering if  anyone else has found a volume control pedal to work with a zx/td20..  i have the  v3 chip (hope to upgrade  to the v4 this summer)..

i would like to have  a volume control pedal which can handle either a mono or stereo signal (from L out or both out on the td20) 1/4inch to the pedal  -- then pedal on to the amplifier/PA (either mono or stereo)..

thanks in advance..
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DrumWagon

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2010, 02:15:26 PM »

I would think any ol' MIDI pedal will do, although you'll need one that supports MIDI THRU to be able to hook up both the pedal and your Zendrum to the TD20 at the same time.

When you get the Z4 upgrade, have David install a CC knob on the back.  I have one on mine that I use to control MIDI volume and it's fantastic.

BTW, the CC number for volume is #7 and yes, the TD20 supports it.

HTH
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marktec1

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 06:31:08 PM »

thanks so much for the reply, so, i guess there is  no way of controlling the volume thru the 1/4 in out jacks?? 

i  thought there might be  a volume pedal which takes the actual signal from the L(mono) and or R outs on the back of  the td20, and sits between the td20 and the pa system..

so,  i guess i have to wait for the  z4 upgrade..

thanks again, i love this forum

bob
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Zendrumdude

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 07:56:48 PM »

thanks so much for the reply, so, i guess there is  no way of controlling the volume thru the 1/4 in out jacks??  Do you mean the jacks of the Zendrum?  You could do that with Z4, but not Z3.

i  thought there might be  a volume pedal which takes the actual signal from the L(mono) and or R outs on the back of  the td20, and sits between the td20 and the pa system.. Absolutely... in fact, Boss makes a stereo one (FV-50L), which would be perfect.

so,  i guess i have to wait for the  z4 upgrade..

thanks again, i love this forum

bob
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 07:59:52 PM by zendrumdude »
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marktec1

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 09:06:32 AM »

thanks so much, that looks like exactly the ticket for now...

so, i use the L version with the zen/td20 setup, and i can use it either mono or stereo??


thanks again

this forum and zen nation is the greatest..

bob
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randtor

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2010, 07:58:18 PM »


When you get the Z4 upgrade, have David install a CC knob on the back.  I have one on mine that I use to control MIDI volume and it's fantastic.
So, what is a "cc" knob, and how does it work? I am hoping to Chat with David in the next few days and get my zendrum to him in the next few weeks.
BTW, the CC number for volume is #7 and yes, the TD20 supports it. Does the TD-10?

HTH
Rand
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DrumWagon

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 10:05:49 PM »

Not the greatest photo, but you can see the CC knob I use for volume here:
http://nebiru.com/drumWagon/slideshow.cfm/zendrumPostSurgery?slide=3

Page 167 of your TD-10 manual (http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811143/TD-10_eG.pdf) lists which CCs (control change) it responds to.  It would appear that the TD-10 does not support CC#7, at least in it's unexpanded form.  I would try it anyways as #7 is a pretty rudimentary function and it may just be that the manual is wrong (wouldn't be the first time).  Also if you have an expanded TD-10, they may have added that feature.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 04:01:56 PM by DrumWagon »
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randtor

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 07:51:50 PM »

Note the greatest photo, but you can see the CC knob I use for volume here:
http://nebiru.com/drumWagon/slideshow.cfm/zendrumPostSurgery?slide=3
Thanks, I "think" I see it!
Page 167 of your TD-10 manual (http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811143/TD-10_eG.pdf) lists which CCs (control change) it responds to.  It would appear that the TD-10 does not support CC#7, at least in it's unexpanded form.  I would try it anyways as #7 is a pretty rudimentary function and it may just be that the manual is wrong (wouldn't be the first time).  Also if you have an expanded TD-10, they may have added that feature.
I see that in the manual on pg 167, for sequencer. I also see it on page 165, for percussion, and it doesn't seem to support it. I do have the expanded version of the TD-10, but I don't know how I would try it to see if #7 is recognized. What exactly IS #7 ? Is that the Note # I would assign to a pad, to see if volume is recognized?? Wow, there is so much about MIDI I don't know.... *sigh*.
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Pocket Master

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 09:06:19 PM »

I have a MIDI pedal, the Roland FC-300, which has two pedals.  The left pedal default is CC#7 which seems to me to be the standard volume control number.  I was using a Roland TD-6V drum module but it did not support the MIDI volume control signal, so I ended up buying a standard guitar volume pedal.  I am now using a Macbook with Superior Drummer and that program does support MIDI volume control.  I tried it out tonight by just hooking it up to the MIDI in and turned on the pedal, it started working right away, I didn't have to make program changes or anything like that.  Bottom line, if the sound platform you are using supports MIDI volume control (CC#7 for the programming) all you have to do is plug it in and it should start working, you may have to turn it on at the sound module so that the module is looking for the signal from the pedal.  Other than that, if it doesn't support it,  I would just use a standard guitar volume pedal, I picked one up from GC for 99.00, Ernie Ball I think.

Hope this helps,

Rob
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randtor

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 09:42:25 PM »

Rob,
A few other questions....
~  I assume you hooked the guitar volume pedal up to the zendrum?
~ I see you list Garage Band, Superior Drummer and a Roland module... do you use them all, or are you cycling thru, and finding better results as you move along?

I use a Roland TD-10. It seems to give me everything I need, and it's very simple to set up and play. It looks to me like a lot of zendrummers are using PC's and software related packages. Is there a significant difference, is simpler (Roland TD-10) sometimes better and sometimes not??

BTW, I like your tune "Miracles and Raindrops".... is that yours?? Really mellow and smooth.....

Rand
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Pyrate

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 03:41:26 AM »

Avast Thar Sticks:

    Aye use a Roland TD-20.  Aye recently acquired BFD2 and a new laptop (Windows 7) to go with it.  Aye looked at the MACbook Pro, but it be too expensive.  I am still learning my way around BFD2 but I can tell you from what I have seen so far, the sounds are much more realistic than what Roland provides, but it is much more difficult to set up than the TD 20 and get all the nuances right.  I had kits setup and running perfect in the TD 20 in minutes.  I have yet to get a single kit in BFD 2 to setup right the first time and I am still tweaking the only kit thyat I have so far.  For potability and ease of use, you can't beat the TD-10/20.  For realism, it seems software is the way to go.  Hope this helps.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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Pocket Master

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2010, 04:26:37 AM »



Hey Rand,

Miracles and Raindrops is a great tune, I did not write it unfortunately, it was written by Scott Osteman who lives in Omaha, NE.  He is now the lead singer for a band called Echobliss.

As for your question about the pedal, I hook it up to the output of whatever sound device I am using.  Basically I run from my Zen MIDI out to the sound device MIDI in, from there I use the 1/4" cable out to the volume pedal, and from the volume pedal to my amp or to the PA mixer.  That is it.  My main purpose for using the MIDI foot controller was to be able to switch between kits for different pad assignments without taking my hands off of the Zen to use the cursor on the back side.  For example, I was using my Roland TD-6V, great sounds, it has limited trigger assignments so I could only crossfade a couple of pads before taking up all of the trigger spaces (it was only a drum module restriction, nothing to do with the Zen).  The reason for me switching was I may want a side stick for most of the song, I would program kit #2 on the module to switch the snare out with a cross stick and I am good to go.  I may want toms in kit #1 and I could put congas in kit #5, I can go straight to kit #5 by just pushing the #5 button with my foot and not scroll up 4 times on the cursor on the Zen.  My TD-6V just didn't support MIDI volume control so I had to purchase a volume pedal with 1/4" inputs and it has worked great.

As for which sounds I use now, I was very content with using my TD-6V, the sounds are great, it is small and not very expensive, plus it came with my electronic kit.  I did buy a second one for a backup.  I had thought about using something like BFD2 but I was hearing about how complicated it can be when getting up to speed on it.  Just this past week, "The Mayor" Tom Roady came by for a visit and he set up some of his “toys” and I hooked up my Zendrum.  He was using a Macbook, GarageBand, and a program called EZdrummer.  The sound quality to me was night and day, there is so much more control with what you can do with your kit using the software, and I am hearing that BFD2 is a memory hog so you need to compensate your computer to handle that issue.

I went out that night (with my wife Lisa) and purchased Superior Drummer which is basically EZdrummer on steroids, and several of the expansion packs with many additional kits, and a Macbook Pro with 4GB of Ram to make sure I had enough memory to run what I needed.  Basically, I am only using Superior Drummer for my sound module now, I still have the Roland when I play and have a setting mapped for my it on my Zen in the event my MacBook isn’t working one night, but my TD-6V stays in the case as an emergency backup.  I suppose I could hook them both up together but there is in my opinion a significant sound difference between the two and I don’t think they would match up, and the Roland is very limited compared to Superior.

GarageBand is basically a mini recording studio on the computer with piano, guitar, bass, and drum sounds.  You can control them from you Zen and basically create an entire song with the Zen.  You can add multiple tracks and control many things for each track.  I haven’t played with GarageBand much yet, but I will in the near future.  I am playing a gig this weekend and will be using Superior Drummer instead of the Roland, I bought it last Friday, had a basic kit setup in less than an hour to include congas, rim shots, and chimes with my full kit.  Went and played with the Mayor and some of his friends that Sunday and it sounded like I had been playing with that program for years.  That is how easy it is to set it up.  Just this week I have tweaked it even more and played with some the EQ and velocity controls in the program and haven’t had to touch anything on my ZX except to move pad assignments around to fit my style.  I definitely recommend going with Superior Drummer, although I have no experience with BFD2 other than what I hear from other users.

Hope this answers some of your questions, and sorry for the long post.

Rob
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« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 04:35:49 AM by Sticks »
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randtor

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 03:42:22 PM »

Ahhh, pocket master!, and *Arrrgh!* hi Pyrate!

Wow, great answers Rob, thanks. I did some research on the net and found out more about superior drummer from Toontrack. Sounds really sweet. Question#1 : Can you get melodic instrument notes from that, like piano, bells, etc, or is it strictly percussion? My TD-10 has different parts built in (similar to the TD-20) and I am just now starting to figure them out. I'd sure like to hear the difference between the SD 2.2 and the TD-10.
Q #2: Which expansion packs did you opt for? In considering switching over to SD, it means a fairly expensive investment, in a new MacBook, the SD software, several exp packs, and a way to tie everything together! (with the Roland TD-10 I just plug the pin in from the zendrum and I play!). I 'm not too imtimidated with learning a new program, but trying to piece it all together, and make sure I don't add to my gear so that it takes me longer to set up and tear down. I kinda enjoy being the first guy ready to go! What do you use to hook the zendrum to the pc, is that the
Looks like it is user friendly from what you've said.
Q#3: Is there a signicficant difference in the sound quality from the TD-6 to SD software? I wonder if it is still as significant from the TD-10?

Pyrate, I was with another zendrummer last night and he and I were comparing notes TD-10 vs TD-20. We both agreed that for ease of use, the Rolands are the way to go. I agree from what you say, and others, the software seems to give better realistic sound.
So you having used the TD-20 and BFD2.... and perhaps others can chime in here as well........ is the sound SO significantly different as to make people in the crowd sit up and take notice, or is it something pretty much only noticable by the musicians that come to see/hear you play? I would love a more realistic brush snare, crash cymbals, and even a better ride cymbal... but at what expense? Do I sacrifice portability and ease of setting up to get a little better sound, or is the sound so hugely better that it's worth the extra time??
Thanks alll! Rand
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Pyrate

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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 04:36:41 AM »

Avast Thar Mateys,

    Regarding the question of sound differences between BFD2 and the TD-20, since Aye do not play for the public (only did that once by invitation), Aye cannot answer whether or not the sounds would make an audience "sit up and take notice".  When Aye tried to demonstrate the difference to me First Mate, her untrained ears, which rarely listen to me anyway, could not tell the difference in nuance, but only tone.  Aye imagine that if there were some musicians in the audience, they could tell the difference, but Aye also suspect that to the musically ignorant, they would not be able to tell, especially in a larger rock or metal venue where nuance is left behind in favor of heavy handed hits at velocity 127 most of the time.  Once again, if Aye were to play for a live audience, Aye would still opt for the TD-20 for portability and setup sake.

     Hope this helps.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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Re: Volume Control Pedal
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 05:20:39 AM »

This is what I have seen:

Playing my TD-6V, the sounds are great, but I get that machine gun sound every once in a while on the snare, toms and HH when I start getting fancy with the ghost notes which to the average person, may or may not be noticed.  Being that I have been playing drums for 30+ years, I hear it and it did annoy me and I felt it showed in my performance.  I did find that with my module, I was adding on items such as my FC-300 MIDI foot controller, volume pedal and so on, so now I was carrying more items than I had originally intended.

I switched over to Superior Drummer, and what I love about it is that each drum has been sampled 25 times at 3 different levels of velocity, so 25 soft, 25 medium and 25 hard.  There is a randomize button so that when you hit the same drum consecutive times, it will never play the same hit twice giving you more of a human feel.  I could tell that immediately when I hooked in to "The Mayor's" setup on his MacBook.  The other think I like is more control over the individual microphone settings with the entire kit.  Some kits have 3 mics on the snare, 2 on the kick, overheads for the cymbals and so on, just like in the studio.  I can adjust the EQ, volume level, and decay for every drum.  The kick even has an option to rattle the snares a little when it is struck.  Very detailed and upgradeable if updates become available, which there were some after I had installed the expansion packs.

"The Mayor" has both EZDrummer and Superior, he was using EZDrummer which is a basic version of Superior, I went with Superior because the additional control over the kits instead of purchasing both.  Superior comes with New York Avatar Studios.  As for the expansion packs, I purchased:
Jazz
Funkmasters
Claustrophobic
Nashville
Latin Percussion

I did not like the chimes that came with the Latin Percussion pack, but heard the chimes in Claustrophobic and was sold on that pack.

Overall, I have noticed people sit up and take notice while playing.  There are many people that do come out to see what is going on with the Zendrum, most are other musicians and I see the facial expressions when I am playing trademark parts in songs that drummers have issues playing on a real kit.  You see them saying “daaaamnnn, did you hear that, he hit that just like the original”.

Superior does not have any additional sounds other than drums.  GarageBand on the other hand, has a full set of instruments including drums that can be controlled by the Zen.  You can record each instrument as an individual track as well as copy and paste.  You don’t have to play for the entire song; you can play 4 bars and then copy that throughout the rest of the song.  There are guitars, brass, piano, and they all sound great.  It wasn’t until I played the piano during Tom Roady’s visit when my wife was sold on getting the MacBook and Superior because she could tell the difference and knew that would put my abilities on the Zen that much higher, and I have to say I agree that it has put me up to another level.
I cannot speak for BFD2, but I have no complaints about Superior.  I purchased it on a Friday evening, loaded my first set of kits on Saturday, and was jamming on Sunday with no issues other than my kick was a little too much, I adjusted the individual slider for the kick so the punch was still there, but not so overbearing and I was good to go.  Easy Easy Easy……It took me longer to set up my TD-6V when I got my Zendrum.

Rob
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