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Author Topic: Piano/Bells, etc  (Read 1284 times)

randtor

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Piano/Bells, etc
« on: March 04, 2010, 08:44:37 PM »

So, I have been fooling around with Channel 2, 5 and 6. I get lots of cool sounds from strings, bells, organs, pianos, steel drums etc. BUT.. when I get something I like the sound of and try to get out of the [CH] and get to [PR] or [UP], I lose the sound I have and it switches to gongs, bells, or whatever, without my having changed any parameters. What gives?

And how can I progam this area? Apparently these sounds are built in to the zendrum. How can I change the notemap and put certain notes on certain triggers so I can play some strings, keys, etc, with the right notes? My group wants to try "Like Lovers Do" (Eurythmics), and I want to try and program the pads so I can play that string thing in the beginning. Is there any way to program these?

I am using the Z3 setup and have a Roland TD-10. The Roland does give me different sounds when I change the [PR] or the [UP]. Lots of different combinations too. I would like to figure out  (1) how to program these areas, and (2) how toget and keep the settings, sounds that I like. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rand
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 08:56:39 PM by randtor »
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Pocket Master

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 10:10:26 PM »

I am sure that the sounds you are hearing on the different channels are not coming from the ZX.  I am using a Roland TD-6V for my module and also have the 3.1 chip.  I can access certain sounds like guitars, piano, horns, and so on by changing the channel number.  I keep it on channel 10 because my main use is the drum kit sounds.  I can program my ZX to trigger songs or loops that I have programmed in my drum module by just touching a pad, but I have to program the module to play that sound when a certain pad is touched.

On my TD-6V, I have 99 drum kits.  What I have done is setup many different kits.  For example, kit 1 is a rock kit, I have heavy toms and crashes set up.  my second kit is a Latin kit.  With that kit instead of toms, I have congas, bongos, bells, and so on set on my tom pads and also set those pads to crossfade so I can get an entire percussion setup on just 2 or 3 pads while playing a full kit with my other hand.  It sounds like 2 drummers in the band, unfortunately I have not been able to convince anyone to pay me twice the money.  I also have another kit set for brushes and so on.

Basically, all I have to do is switch between the kits to access different sounds that I want.  I may be using the rock kit for one part of the song and right in the middle change over to the Latin kit to break down a part of the song and then right back to the rock kit.  I bought a midi foot controller to make it easier to switch between kits without my hands leaving any of the pads.

I did have to make most of my sound changes at the module and not on my ZX.  Once I set my pads to where I wanted them, snare on this pad, kick on this pad, and so on, all I do now is change the sound on the module to pick what snare sound I want on the snare pad.  I recommend that you really sit down hand work with trial and error.  It took me about 2 weeks to learn how my module worked and about a month to learn how my ZX controlled the module, but I must say, I am still learning as I go.  Hope this helps, sorry for the long post.

Rob




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Jaay

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 10:20:31 PM »

Hey there!  I have a similar setup, but not with the Roland.  I thought I might be of service.


To answer the question "How can I change the notemap and put certain notes on certain triggers so I can play some strings, keys, etc, with the right notes?":

First, figure out what those notes ARE.  I believe Middle "C" is Note Number 38 (someone fact-check that for me?).  Proceed from there.  So if your passage goes C-D-E, the Note Numbers you would need are 38-39-40 (Assuming "C" is 38).  

So now you have your Note Numbers.  Now you assign those to triggers on the Zendrum by way of the "NO" menu ("NO" for "note").  And you can put those wherever you want.  

So, now you have your notes.  How do you want them to sound?   Here's where things get tricky.

If your sound module has a melodic voice you like assigned to it's group of drum and percussion sounds, just stick with Channel 10 and you're done. If not, then you need to do some more programming.

In the world of MIDI, drums are always Channel 10.  You're not working with drums right now, so you need to choose another Channel.  any of the other 15 Channels can be whatever you want, so again, we'll say for this example it's Channel 1.  

Let's say you want to do a simple violin patch.  According to my notes, violin is Program Change command 41.  

With this knowledge, now we approach the Zendrum.

Take a Note Map, and go to the CH menu for your MIDI Channel and select Channel 1.  Now go to the PR menu for your Program Change and select 41 for violin.  Now go to the NO menu for your MIDI Notes and put them where you like.

Congratulations, you're playing the violin.


Note that on a 3.1 Zendrum, it's one Channel per note map, so if you want to go from strings to drums you're going to have to set it up so that the Maps for each are right next to each other and switch them out.

I hope this helps; good luck!

Jaay
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Pyrate

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 03:55:45 AM »

Avast Thar Randtor,

    Long time no see.  The ZX has no built in sounds of its own.  All sounds come from whatever module you are using.  In the case of Roland, I have a TD-20.  If I want a sound other than drums, I have to change the channel in the zendrum map AND on the module to access those sounds.  On version 3.1 the channel is "universal" across all of the zendrum pads for a particular setup as stated by Jaay.  On Version 4 each pad can be a different channel from what I understand, which would make what you want to do much easier.  It might be worth your while to contact our esteemed (or E-steamed) Inspector 109 to discuss an upgrade.  I have not had the Jolly Roger Zendrum updated yet, but I will (with my 2010 tax refund next year, pay attention Inspector).   

    Hope this helps.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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Zendrumdude

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2010, 01:13:27 PM »

Rand,

I will try to help in blue:

So, I have been fooling around with Channel 2, 5 and 6. I get lots of cool sounds from strings, bells, organs, pianos, steel drums etc. BUT.. when I get something I like the sound of and try to get out of the [CH] and get to [PR] or [UP], I lose the sound I have and it switches to gongs, bells, or whatever, without my having changed any parameters. What gives?
I'd have to know more to be sure of this, but I am guessing it's one of those situations where program change messages are being sent when you "store" the changed parameter by getting out of the numerical portion of the menu and back to the letter heading (Up, PR, etc.)

And how can I progam this area? Just like you would for drums, etc.  Change the note number and channel on whatever notemap (setup) you want to use for that song. Apparently these sounds are built in to the zendrum. Nope, no sounds in the Zendrum.  When you go to different channels, you are now accessing the sequencer feature on the TD-10.  You'll need to read the manual, but you CAN change what instruments are set on each channel too! How can I change the notemap and put certain notes on certain triggers so I can play some strings, keys, etc, with the right notes? Again, find out what the notes are and assign the same note number to the triggers you want.  Someone earlier said C was 38... it's actually 36, and any number divisible by 12 (next octave up is 48, next is 60, etc.)  My group wants to try "Like Lovers Do" (Eurythmics), This song is called "Here Comes the Rain Again", right? and I want to try and program the pads so I can play that string thing in the beginning. Is there any way to program these? Absolutely... but you'll need to have time to switch to the drum notemap afterwards, unless you upgrade to Z4, in which case you could have drums AND strings on the same map.

I am using the Z3 setup and have a Roland TD-10. The Roland does give me different sounds when I change the [PR] or the [UP]. Lots of different combinations too. I would like to figure out  (1) how to program these areas, and (2) how toget and keep the settings, sounds that I like. What you need to explore is in the TD-10, not the Zendrum.  You need to read how to assign instruments in the sequencer to their channels (Roland calls these "Parts".)  Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rand

Best of luck dude!

Jer

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randtor

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2010, 11:05:13 PM »

WOW!
Thanks guys, all that advice and instruction is fabulous. I am going to go with each of your's advice, sit down in the corner for a week, and learn all I can about the TD-10. I have been using it for a number of years, with a Roland V session set up. I really used it in a very limited way. Now that I have 100% committed myself (no, not that way!) to playing the zendrum only, I guess I really need to go over the manual with a fine tooth comb. I have, over the past few years, learned more about the TD10, but again vrey limited. When I first started using the zendrum, I screwed around with a lot of the settings on the TD10, and I am sure I've changed a lot of what came stock. So, first I need to reset everything back to stock, then reprogram the zendrum with my favorite's that I use now.
I messed with everything in the TD10... attack, EQ, I mean everything... basically I had no idea how little I knew. Now that I am learning more, I have found out how badly I messed it up to start with, lol!
Anyway, I have decided to play only the zendrum. I am currently in 2 working groups. The first is oldies, classic, acoustic/electric, and I found them accidentally, and we have evolved over the past few years. The 2nd group is more Americana, Country, bluegrass, and I just started working with them. They love the zendrum... and I go with it, so they're stuck with me too!
 I am planning on selling all my other gear on eBay over the next few weeks. The plan is to raise the cash in those sales, to get the zendrum to the Inspector, for the Z4 upgrade and the wireless conversion, along with a few extra pads. I 'm shooting for April, since we have a slow month playing (a lot of vacationers in April, including me).  So I will be studying hard and going back to "Roland TD10 school" over the next few weeks. I'll shoot you all an update and let you know how I am making out. And of course, if I have questions along the way, I'll be posting on this thread.
Thanks again. You guys are really very helpful. I need to learn more so I can repay by offering help to someone else... eventually!
Rand
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marktec1

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 01:56:11 PM »

hi rand, bob casale  here(warren, ri) and just to let everyone here know, you have  been a big help to me in my quest to better handle all this new fangled technology.. and  the folks here pyrate,  zendrummerdude, sticks, geosphere, and especially our leader inspector109 are fabulous at answering questions and helping out..

keep it up  folks, you continue to inspire me (and that's no easy task)

bob
warren, ri
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randtor

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2010, 07:32:42 PM »

Hey Bob, long time!

We play at Tinkers Friday night 3/26, so if you are hanging around come on down. I'll buy you a Smithwick's, and we can chat. You certainly can strap on my Zendrum and play a few tunes too, if you like. There may be a few gigs in the future that I cannot be there for, so if you want to sit in and debut, mayhaps the gents will take your info for future gigs, seeing as how they are accustomed to a Zendrummer already!
Shoot me an email if you like. rand@torman.net (I think I have yours also, I'll have to check).

Coolness prevails! I hope you can come by!
Rand
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marktec1

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Re: Piano/Bells, etc
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2010, 09:33:02 AM »

hello  there my friend, ill be there...  we'll chat tonight..

thanks
bob
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