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Author Topic: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue  (Read 4822 times)

SpinMD

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Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« on: August 30, 2006, 11:10:37 PM »

Hi everyone!  I'm the new (and very PROUD) owner of a ZX - Flame Maple/Figured Cherry.

Right out of the box I've had no problem triggering my Roland TD-20 kits, BUT I do have a problem with pads/triggers that are not outputting anything at all.  My suspicion is that the Roland kits need to have instruments numbered to match the pads on the ZenDrum, but I'm at a loss as to how to do that (the module is new to me as well).  The whole midi thing is a new concept to me and I'm learning more each day, but I've got a brain block on note assignment, etc. 

Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated, or even pointing me in the direction of some excellent study material.

Best regards,

John
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Inspector 109

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 04:13:24 AM »

Hey John,
You are correct that the TD-20 needs to be aligned to have every note the Zendrum sends trigger something specific, but the quick and easy way is to edit the Zendrum triggers so that the sounds are coming up where you want them to be. Most likely, the note numbers are up too far for the Roland to read. Try the easy way, first. Get something going that makes sense on every trigger as a total layout, THEN dive into the deep operating system of the Roland.
Another newbie- Dr. Shark found a DVD tutorial for the Roland that he learned from. (Where did you get that, Mark?) Once you understand how they do stuff and what they call it, it gets easier to build your own custom kits.
Hope this helps!
David
 
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firemusician

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 09:45:22 PM »

Hey John, In the beginning... I also did some experimenting with a TD-10 and found that because of the roland hi-hat pedal,  you will have to pay attention on which MIDI notes you assign for hi hat functions (open vs. closed sounds).  If your going to use another module in addition to the Roland, make sure you set up your hi hat notes around the roland module. I have two ALESIS modules and a Roland TD-5.  Since setting the hi-hat note to the Roland and changing the ALESIS modules to match the Roland settings... all is well.  If I am missing something someone else please chime in.  Take care and stay safe, Mark
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SpinMD

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2006, 11:04:47 PM »

Thank you everyone for your input.  I'm learning.  It's nice to see such support with my very first post!  I'll continue to watch for other suggestions and tips!

Thanks again!
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Pyrate

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 05:00:50 AM »

Shiver me timbers....another TD-20 sailor. I have a TD-20 and was new to all this midi stuff when i got my Zendrum (the Jolly Roger Zendrum, a work of art that as far as I know is the only Zendrum with an embedded graphic) .  The TD-20 does not recognize all of the standard midi notes, so each pad on the Zendrum has to be reset to a note number that the TD-20 does recognize.  this isn't difficult if you follow the directions that came with your Zendrum and the instructions that are available for the TD-20.  Arrrrgghhh!  If I can manage it, anyone can!
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saw doctor

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2006, 08:35:00 PM »

hello all !! another new td-20/zendrum user here. i am also lost in all of this technical space. for 20+ years all i knew was "bang things with sticks" now i have to think! i hate to think!!! i'm sure all of you will get tired of answering my questions but i would like to thank you all in advance anyway.....
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Pyrate

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 05:23:53 AM »

Ahoy Saw Doc,

      Nobody here gets tired of answering questions.  So ask away, laddie!  Many of us here use a TD-20 with our Zendrums.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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Pyrate Factoid:  Black Bart Roberts was the most successful Pyrate of the Golden Age.  He captured over 400 ships between 1720 and 1722.

saw doctor

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2006, 07:18:12 PM »

i figured i'd get a lot of help here as i have gotten on v drums.com.....very helpful over there. my main problem right now is dedicating the time to play my zendrum. every time i get some spare time, i wind up playing my rolands instead. i guess i'll have to regiment my time a little....any zendrummers in the philly area??
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kbour

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TD-20 Note Mapping iQuestion
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 07:34:52 AM »

Hope I can continue this thread... 

I just received my new ZD yesterday (LT version  :o) and plugged it into my Roland TD-20.  Way cool!  I have managed to figure out the basic note assignment ("no" function) between ZD and Roland and am experimenting now with different layouts. 

Question 1:  I want to use the Velocity Crossfade capability, but I see in the ZD manual that sounds must be in specific MIDI note order/sequence for this function to work properly.   Perhaps it would be best to illustrate with an example.  I want to crossfade just two sounds, snare and rim shot, according to velocity (say, positions 1 and 3).  On the TD-20, snare is MIDI=38 and RIM=40.  The ZD wants snare in MIDI positions 40-43 for crossfade.  Do I need to remap the entire module's MIDI in order to utilize crossfade?  Once I start moving individual notes, I can see that there will be conflicts with others and a domino effect will ensue.  Is there an easy way to remap MIDI other than selecting instruments one by one and changing the MIDI note assignment?  YIKES! 

Question 2:  If I do end up moving snare to MIDI 40-43, but only want to crossfade two sounds, do I empty MIDI note 41 and 43 or just duplicate the MIDI assignment for 40-41 and 42-43? 

Thanks,

Ken
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Ken Bour, Northern Virginia
Current Equipment:  Zendrum LT, TD-20 VDrums, Musser M-75 Vibes, JBL 15" EON G2's w/ 18" JBL Sub, Roland SC-D77

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2006, 06:04:44 PM »

David Haney confirmed that I would have to completely remap the TD-20's MIDI assignments if I were to take advantage of the ZD's velocity crossfade.  He then suggested that I handle the function in my TD-20 module vs. ZD.   He felt pretty sure that there is a way to get two sounds with different velocity, but I scoured my manual and cannot find any remote reference to such a capability.  I searched VDrums and the internet, but didn't come up with anything useful. 

If anyone knows how to program velocity crossfade in the TD-20, I would appreciate the information.   I can certainly live without it, but I was hoping to get a couple of extra sounds by doubling up a few (e.g. bongo, conga) that seem like they would be suitable for velocity crossfade. 

Also, does anyone know if "layering" sounds (having one trigger sound two different patches) is possible on the TD-20?   I thought I had that capability on my TD-8, but I don't see it anywhere on the TD-20 unless it can be accomplished somehow using the Pattern feature (e.g. Tap?).  

Thanks,

Ken
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Ken Bour, Northern Virginia
Current Equipment:  Zendrum LT, TD-20 VDrums, Musser M-75 Vibes, JBL 15" EON G2's w/ 18" JBL Sub, Roland SC-D77

Pyrate

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 07:08:31 AM »

Avast there matey,

     You can have one trigger formulate two sounds, but you need two modules to accomplish it.  I use a TD-20 and a Korg Triton Rack to accomplish this feat, although I find I have rare need of it.

     As far as cross fades, it takes incredible finger control to get precise cross fades, regardless of the module used.  I know of only a handful that can consistently acheive that level of control (you may just be one for all I know). However, the drawbacks and limitations of the TD-20 will make it harder.  I personally have two adjacents pads set up, one for snare and one for rim.  That way I can strike either one individually, or both simultaneously to achieve a combination sound (but that does take both trigger pads to accomplish).

     Hope this helps.

Fair Winds and following seas,
Pyrate
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kbour

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 01:44:29 PM »

Pyrate:

Thank you -- that helps a lot.  I couldn't find any way to crossfade or layer and I appreciate having confirmation that those capabilities are not available on the standalone TD-20.   

Had I used crossfade at all, it would only have been for 2 sounds, certainly not 4.  My abilities on the instrument would be nowhere near that accurate.   Instead, I am following your model which is to have one trigger set to SN and its neighbor set to RS. 

David Haney thought that the TD-20 could handle a two element velocity crossfade, so I wanted to explore further just to learn how...

Regards,

Ken

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Ken Bour, Northern Virginia
Current Equipment:  Zendrum LT, TD-20 VDrums, Musser M-75 Vibes, JBL 15" EON G2's w/ 18" JBL Sub, Roland SC-D77

Pyrate

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 06:30:26 AM »

I think our extremely intelligent Inspector 109 (David Haney) is probably correct and the TD-20 can handle a two note crossfade.  The issue is note mapping in the TD-20, which you have already discovered.  The other issue is my fingers just don't have that much control any more (presuming that they ever did).  I like to keep things simple (First rule of engineering).  Therefore my setup just seemed to make the most sense to me.  I happy to see that it might be working for you as well.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2007, 02:55:08 PM »

Good afternoon ladies and gentleman. Let me first say that it is an honor to be part of this chatroom and I have the utmost respect to all of you who are utilizing this awesome instrument. I am using my ZX figured cherry with purpleheart center (see product catalogue, custom) with the TD-20 module and kit, and I did purchase the TD-20 manual DVD to help me understand all of its capabilities. I got it on line and found it very helpful. Please make sure you have the ability to hit the pause button quickly and often. I have watched that sucker over and over and still learn more things every time I watch it. I must admit that I do not use crossfades and I don't think the DVD will help you with this function, so don't get it if this is the only thing you are interested in. Thanks to all of you who make wonderful contributions to this site. It is very important for all of us to communicate in order for us to grow and get better. Special thanks to Inspector 109 and wife, drumhead 99. Mr. Wizard Emrich and the Pyrate. Sincerely Dr. Shark, Atlanta Georgia
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drumhead99

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Re: Newbie ZX owner with TD-20 note mapping issue
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 01:40:15 PM »

David Haney confirmed that I would have to completely remap the TD-20's MIDI assignments if I were to take advantage of the ZD's velocity crossfade.  He then suggested that I handle the function in my TD-20 module vs. ZD.   He felt pretty sure that there is a way to get two sounds with different velocity, but I scoured my manual and cannot find any remote reference to such a capability.  I searched VDrums and the internet, but didn't come up with anything useful. 


....unfortunately,  there is no way to do that in the TD-20,  since the module is "COSM" based,  it is supposed to get the "nuances" of each individual sound,  but you can't crossfade 2 different sounts....

Also, does anyone know if "layering" sounds (having one trigger sound two different patches) is possible on the TD-20?   I thought I had that capability on my TD-8, but I don't see it anywhere on the TD-20 unless it can be accomplished somehow using the Pattern feature (e.g. Tap?).

....you can do this on the TD-20 actually,  with the tap feature  it reads as combining a kick/cymbal sound,  but you can do it for any two sounds....  see my thread here:

http://zendrum.com/forums/index.php?topic=338.0


Mike
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