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Zendrum Stuff => ZenChat => Topic started by: DrumWagon on March 03, 2010, 11:29:40 PM

Title: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on March 03, 2010, 11:29:40 PM
I'm currently nose-down and working on a cross-platform editor for Z4-based Zendrums.  If you have any requests, please let me know.

Currently planned features are:

The editor is not planned to be backwards compatible with 3.x boards at this time, but portions of it could be depending on demand.

There is no firm release date for this application, but I expect it to be finalized in either the second or third quarter this year.  Early beta releases will probably be available as it nears completion.

Thanks in advance for your input!

oh, also it needs a cool name!  I've toyed with "Zazen" because of its relationship to Zen but it really doesn't have the right "ring" to it.  For the moment I'm just referring to the project as "ZenEdit".  Any ideas for a better name?

cheers!
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Pyrate on March 04, 2010, 03:32:59 AM
Avast Thar Matey,

     How about calling is Zenex.  Or does that sound too much like Xanax.  Playing a Zendrum and taking an anti-anxiety drug have the same effect it seems to me.  But then again for anti-anxiety I prefer a bottle Captain Morgan.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Zendrumdude on March 04, 2010, 08:35:25 AM
Call it iZen.

That was a joke.  ;)

I will be sending a wishlist along later... this is something I have been thinking about for a long time and I want to spend some time getting it all down.  This will be a dream come true, man... you rock!

Jer
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on March 04, 2010, 09:23:47 AM
WOW!  Thank you . What you are doing will be a help to many Zendrummers. I think the crossfade is one of the least used parameters and I would use it more when this GUI comes out. I think that the ability to see the sensitivity graph would also help in many instances. Keep up the good work Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Pyrate on March 04, 2010, 09:46:38 AM
Avast Thar Mateys,

      You could call it the Zendrum Open Operating Monitor or ZOOM for short.  Just another suggestion from the Olde Pyrate.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on March 04, 2010, 09:58:53 AM
While we are wishing to be able to change the 4-Note Velocity Switch Points might be a good feature to have in the new GUI Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: drshark on March 04, 2010, 12:30:01 PM
To our friend DrumWagon,

Great News !!! Thank you for stepping up with this. This is the final frontier for us. I cannot wait for this to happen. Make sure you leave your address so we can send you some money for your efforts. It will be worth every penny for sure.

Mark
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: huez2000 on March 08, 2010, 10:04:18 AM
I'll be preparing a short list this week to post. including the desire for an alpha display for note number entry alongside numeric.

The GUI/editor for the Zen series is going to be tremendous. I'm happy to hear it's in the works.
Cross platform is an obvious must.
Although the integration of USB on the Zen models is not a reality at the moment this GUI design app could very well be a step in the right direction.

Requests and thoughts coming soon from the trenches.

Best,
Huston
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Zendrumdude on March 08, 2010, 10:34:37 AM
I am so glad we're discussing this again, and I will echo someone else's post from earlier: I will happily make a donation when this becomes a reality, and I hope my ZenBros and ZenSises will do the same!  I am recommending some pretty serious changes in functionality, and I don't know if it's within the scope of the current GUI development, but one can always hope...

Wishes for melodic use:
1) Selectable note length (duration before note off) selectable per channel (so we can sustain the piano channel only, etc.)
2) Transposition per channel, +/- one octave (-12 to +12 semitones) for keyboard-style transposition, per channel
3) Sequential note chain (program a number of notes, then each hit of that pad triggers the next note in that sequence).  Maybe selectable from 2-16 notes?
4) More setup notemaps!!!
5) Banks for setups: melodic bank, percussion bank, etc.


MAJOR CROSSFADE OVERHAUL:

-When selecting a trigger's send parameters, you'd choose a channel and a note number, just like it is now.
-Each trigger would, by default, have one channel and note assigned.
-In the GUI, each trigger would have a drop-down menu with a number of additional "slots."  Again, assign number and channel for each slot you want active.
-In addition, each slot would have a third and fourth parameter (in addition to channel and note number): Vel Min and Vel Max.  This is where you'd set up custom crossfades.  By default, they'd be 0-127.  But, each "slot" for each pad would be separately controlled.  This way we'd get the ability to do several separate things with velocity, all within the addition of this velocity functionality:

1) Selectable crossfade points
2) Layerable crossfades
3) Sound stacking (not necessarily crossfaded)
4) Selectable number of notes to be crossfaded or stacked (dependent on number of slots)
5) Nonlinear crossfade note numbers

I would also recommend that if the Vel Min is set HIGHER than Vel Max, you'd get a "split", with the selected note number active across the whole velocity spectrum EXCEPT between the values.  For example, 2 sounds are selected..  For Sound 1, Vel Min set to 100, Vel Max set to 40.  For Sound 2, Vel Min set to 41, Vel Max set to 99.  In this example, the notes played at velocities 0-40 would be Sound 1, 41-99 Sound 2, 100-127 Sound 1.  Make sense?  Just an idea for more flexibility.

I hope this makes sense, but if it needs clarification, let's chat!  This is a LONG-term dream for me!

Jer
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on March 08, 2010, 02:41:18 PM
Jeremy, some great ideas there, but these are more for the "blue sky" thread as they fall under the purview of the hardware and machine programming folks.  While my application will make editing your Zendrums' configuration easier, it cannot alter the basic machine code or add non-existent features.

The editor that I'm working on is at its heart a sysex manipulator, much like the Mokugyo app that was available for the 3.x boards.  Mokugyo only went as far as exposing the note numbers though, whereas this new editor goes much deeper.

The sysex memory images for the 4.0 boards weigh in at around 8Kb -- much larger than the 3.x.  That's roughly 8000 unique memory addresses each of which (for the most part) hold a single setting's value.  So there are for instance 30x16 addresses that hold the note numbers, and another set that hold the channel numbers, etc.  When you tally up all the "known" addresses there's still a substantial block of memory that is unaccounted for for.  There's no telling what gems are hidden in there as it's pretty clear, and David has hinted as much on this forum, that the machine programmer went well beyond the initial feature spec.  I suspect that the settings for these extra features lurk within the unmapped areas of the sysex image and are undocumented simply because the simple physical interface of the Zendrum cannot expose them.  A PC based editor of course can bridge these limitations.

The first of these "hidden" features that I've discovered is the ability to define exactly which 4 notes are used for the crossfade feature.  Not earth-shattering for those people using VSTs exclusively, but for the module folks, that'll be huge.  And I hope to uncover other such treasures!

Here is a sneak peek at the interface that's under development.  Not shown here are the 'selected trigger edit pane' nor the various view modes.  For each trigger (and in each user setup) you'll be able to control the label/information that is shown.  Whether it be the canonical names (as shown) or the midi note number, note name, GM map name, GM icon, module specific name or a completely custom identifier.

(http://nebiru.com/drumwagon/images/zendrumgui_1.jpg)

Annotations will play a big part in the final app.  You'll be able to name and annotate pretty much everything.  Each user setup can be given a name and descriptive text, groups of triggers can be colored (and moved around for custom rigs).  You can even customize the color and wood grain for the body.  Once you've got things setup the way you like, you can then print or export the data.  You can also transfer the data from one Zendrum to another, share your setups with friends, etc.

I'll share more information as it develops.  

tnx
-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Zendrumdude on March 08, 2010, 05:41:14 PM
Darin,

Thanks for clarification.  Yeah, I cut-n-pasted my ideas from the Blue Sky thread!

Still dying to get my hands on a GUI editor; keep up the good work!  One comment on the screenshot you posted: I noticed the "Center" pads are labeled C1-C4, and the "Custom" pads are labeled C1-C6.  To prevent confusion, maybe the custom ones could be labeled X1-X6 for "eXtra."  (I do realize that you state they can be user-named.)

I think we should call it the Zeditor.

Thanks man!!!

Jer
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on March 08, 2010, 06:22:48 PM
I noticed the "Center" pads are labeled C1-C4, and the "Custom" pads are labeled C1-C6.  

Good catch ;)  tnx!
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Pyrate on March 09, 2010, 06:29:50 AM
Avast Thar Matey,

       I like the idea that you can move pads around and color code them for custom setups.  Will you be able to add pads (I noticed you only have 4 custom ne: "X" pads)?  Also, will you be able to move individual pads, or just pad groups?

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on March 09, 2010, 11:09:09 AM
Those 6 triggers floating in the upper-right (the bone yard) represent the custom triggers. 

Up on the toolbar you can change the current "mode".  If you change it to "move mode" (that second icon) then you can drag around individual triggers.

HTH
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on March 09, 2010, 02:12:08 PM
Can the extra trigger icons be either small or large to match what we have put on our Zendrums. Just a thought Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on March 09, 2010, 03:31:58 PM
Yep.
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Pyrate on March 10, 2010, 03:36:16 AM
Avast Thar Matey,

      Given that some pad layouts are rather different, such as Mr. Wizard's (John Emrich) layout on his Z4, you may want to consider making all pads movable.  Just a thought.

Fair Winds and Following Seas,
Pyrate
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on March 10, 2010, 11:49:29 AM
Sorry, I guess I didn't make that part clear -- yes, you can move around any trigger.  There is nothing special about the 6 extra triggers.  Any of the triggers can be moved, edited, resized, etc.

HTH
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: paradidl on April 01, 2010, 05:23:39 PM
I'm excited to have this level of control over the configuration, and will gladly pay for it.  I'm sure it's basic functionality, but will we be able to copy between setups so that we can get one setup highly customized then copy to other setups for minor tweaks?
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on April 01, 2010, 06:16:19 PM
Yep!  You can also "name" each setup too which definitely helps keep track of them.
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Zendrumdude on April 01, 2010, 08:18:39 PM
DrumWagon,

Since we are all *drooling* over this GUI... is there an ETA?  Just wondering!

Thanks!

Jer
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on April 01, 2010, 08:42:16 PM
Second or third quarter, 2010.  Although I'll probably be looking for beta testers sometime before that.
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on April 25, 2010, 11:04:55 PM
An update on the Z4 GUI project.  (Now officially called ZenEdit)

Things are progressing quite smoothly and we're right on target for a summertime release for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X!

All of the major milestones have been met and what's left is really just polishing, plus work on the installer and documentation.

I'm continuing to dig around in the Z4's sysex image and am still finding gems.  For instance, in addition to the previously mentioned ability to manage crossfade notes, another new "you can't do that on a Zen" trick is the ability to set response curves for each individual trigger, rather than being stuck with one global setting.  This totally awesome feature allows you to really fine tune the response of your instrument, visually.

These little finds are quite enjoyable.  There's a real "eureka moment" whenever I stumble on some weird memory address and figure out what cool feature it impacts.  I hope to cram as many of them into the final app as possible.

ZenEdit also now has MIDI support.  As you bang on triggers and CCs, the app highlights them on screen and gives feedback on note numbers and velocity.  It's totally mesmerizing to watch the triggers light up as you tap away  ;D
Time permitting, I may also add a MIDI status window which could keep track of how many times each pad is triggered, detect crosstalk issues and display histograms of velocities.  I can see these kinds of stats being very helpful when you are dialing in and calibrating your axe.

Anyhow, I'll continue to post here with any news about the editor. A preliminary website is also now up at:

http://www.nebiru.com/zenedit/ (http://www.nebiru.com/zenedit/)

That site is still a work in progress but it does begin to detail some of the features that will be present in the initial release, plus some of the initial screenshots.  Your feedback as always is much appreciated!

cheers!
-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Pocket Master on April 26, 2010, 04:02:59 AM
This looks great!  I still have the 3.1 Chipset but after I upgrade I will definately want to utilize what you have worked so hard on.  Is this going to be free or is there a cost to it by the user?

Rob
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on April 26, 2010, 07:22:08 AM
WOW! This looks great Drumwagon.  I am looking forward to this GUI and you are doing a fantastic job. The web site is looking good. I will gladly contribute $ to your efforts as this will be exciting for all Zendrummers. Question? Does the GUI have a go back to factory settings? Per setup and/or global Just in case. Just an idea I had thought about. Thank you for your hard work. Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on April 26, 2010, 07:31:23 AM
I just thought of another question. Will we be able to share setups with other Zendrummers thru  either Emailing a file or maybe have a place on the Forum where we could post our different setups? That would be a cool way for newbies to see what others are doing with their Zen.  Thanks again for what you are doing Drumwagon Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Zendrumdude on April 26, 2010, 04:30:11 PM
D Wag,

You kick @$$ man.  THANKS!

Do you happen to know if Noise Floor will be able to be set per trigger?  I have been begging for this feature forever... this is the best answer for false-triggering, and would allow is to really get the noise floor VERY low on many triggers while eliminating problems on the very touchy ones.

Thanks man!

Jer
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on April 26, 2010, 09:43:50 PM
Jer, just checked on noise floor and YES, it absolutely can be set for each trigger.  Throwing that one onto the top of the TODO list right now.

tnx!
-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on April 26, 2010, 09:45:24 PM
Sticks, no it won't be free, although there will be a free trial version available.

tnx
-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on April 26, 2010, 09:50:13 PM
Thumper, yes it will be possible to revert any user setup back to the factory default.  You don't have to reset the whole setup as you can also just revert selected triggers instead.

Along those same lines, you can copy user setups (or selected triggers) from other setups, or from setups in other files.  If you're familiar with how the TD-20 handles copying kits and kit pieces around between backups, it's a very similar song and dance.

Thanks for the interest you guys!

-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: drshark on April 27, 2010, 08:24:15 AM
Hey Darin,

I agree with Jer's comments. I am willing to pay for it. I am also willing to be a beta site if you need one. I am interested in knowing how this GUI will be able to interface with ALL the software  programs and modules that are available to us. Also, the compatability issues with computers, ie, Windows 7 vs Vista etc. I am excited to see how this works out. You Rock !!

Mark
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on July 12, 2010, 09:14:54 PM
ZenEdit 1.0 has now been officially released!

You can pick it up for Windows, Mac OS or Linux today at:

http://www.nebiru.com/zenedit/ (http://www.nebiru.com/zenedit/)

Documentation is still somewhat sparse, but I wanted this get this app into your hands as quickly as possible ;)
There are some tutorial videos on the site that should get you started, and I'm available here or on the ZenEdit forum to answer any questions you may have.

cheers, and thanks for your patience in seeing this go live!
-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Inspector 109 on July 13, 2010, 04:46:15 AM
Well done, DrumWagon!
I played the videos for someone who came by to drop off his ZX for a Z4 retrofit.
His first word upon hearing how many extra features he could access- "Incredible!"
We're all very impressed here with what you've created.
All Z4 owners should get ZenEdit to realize the full potential of the new engine.
Sign me up!
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on July 13, 2010, 08:25:15 AM
Drum Wagon can you post the steps on how we hook up our Zendrum and computer to be able to transfer what we edit. This would be helpful to those of us that are computer challenged. Thanks for doing this it will be a Great asset to the Zendrumming community. Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Geosphere on July 13, 2010, 09:55:39 AM
There is now a new forum space specifically for discussing the ZenEdit, as this thing has amazing potential to redefine Zendrumming and all Q&A for it should be easy to find.

Head over to the ZenEdit board and give some posts.

Oh, and DrumWagon has moderator control there in addition to me.  This will allow him to move posts out of that forum and such in case they truly don't apply, lock threads and create stickies.
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Geosphere on July 13, 2010, 10:02:30 AM
DrumWagon now also has the title "Editor In Chief" under his name on all posts.
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on July 13, 2010, 10:22:41 AM
Woo Hoo!  A promotion!   :)  Thanks Paul!

And thanks for the shout-out David!
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on July 13, 2010, 12:19:09 PM
Drum Wagon can you post the steps on how we hook up our Zendrum and computer to be able to transfer what we edit. This would be helpful to those of us that are computer challenged. Thanks for doing this it will be a Great asset to the Zendrumming community. Thumper

Thumper, I've placed some rudimentary instructions up here:  http://nebiru.com/zenedit/index.cfm?event=helpIndex (http://nebiru.com/zenedit/index.cfm?event=helpIndex)

Hope this helps,
-darin
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: drshark on July 13, 2010, 03:29:48 PM
Nice going !!!! This is AWESOME !!! Thank you for doing this. I will be purchasing and downloading it on Thursday night. Can you discuss what the diffrence is using your interface with a Z4 vs a non Z4 Zendrum. ( I have one of each and need to rationalize getting the other one upgraded.)

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: DrumWagon on July 13, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
Thanks Mark, I really appreciate the kind words.

I guess it's worth doubly pointing out that ZenEdit will ONLY work with 4.0 boards.   It cannot interpret data from a 3.x board.

For a 3.x Zendrum, you can probably still use Mokugyo (http://zendrum.com/resource-site/zmokug.htm (http://zendrum.com/resource-site/zmokug.htm)).  I believe (but someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Geosphere wrote that app.  It's sort of a one-trick-pony in that it only allows you to change note values, and only speaks general MIDI, but it does what it does well and I myself used to use it before I upgraded my board.

ZenEdit of course goes much farther than that.  On just comparing that one feature (changing notes) ZenEdit brings to the table:

And of course that's not to mention all the other features it exposes, such as fine tuning the calibration for each trigger by setting the noise floor and velocity curve.  So in that sense, they are apples and oranges.

HTH

Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: THUMPER on July 13, 2010, 06:58:34 PM
I got mine  >-D  ;D  Thumper
Title: Re: Z4 GUI Wishlist, Now Taking Requests
Post by: Geosphere on July 13, 2010, 07:13:30 PM
For a 3.x Zendrum, you can probably still use Mokugyo (http://zendrum.com/resource-site/zmokug.htm (http://zendrum.com/resource-site/zmokug.htm)).  I believe (but someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Geosphere wrote that app.  It's sort of a one-trick-pony in that it only allows you to change note values, and only speaks general MIDI, but it does what it does well and I myself used to use it before I upgraded my board.

Yeah, the Mokugyo was mine and it should still work with the z3.  But really, with the new ZenEdit, its really such a feature set of the z4 that it just blows away any prior efforts.  Its worth it to upgrade if for nothing else than being able to use the ZenEdit.  Seriously.